Meagan: 0:28

welcome ladies to the Hard Time to Talk podcast. I'm so excited today to have Laura and Erin here with me. we're gonna talk all about a topic that I think. The world has just forgotten to teach women about, which is what happens to our bodies when we hit around 35 and up in age. I know as a woman who has just turned 35, I know nothing about p menopause. So I am hopefully gonna learn a lot about our discussion today and, give, a story and some context to women out there who are maybe in my shoes or in their forties and fifties who are going through so much and Have realized wait a second, I never got a class on how to deal with this, what do I do here? I'm looking forward to your expertise, ladies, I'll start with Erin. Do you wanna introduce yourself and tell our listeners who you are and why you're here?

erin: 1:20

Sure. my name's Erin Brant. I am one of the graduate students that her time therapy supervises. I'm in my practicum, which is awesome, and I'm very excited to be here and talking about this topic. Very honored to be co-leading a group with Laura on perimenopause and we're gonna talk about that towards the end of the episode. I am here to. Celebrate women and it feels really nice to be at her time therapy doing that work.

Meagan: 1:45

thanks so much for being here, Erin. in addition to being one of our. Newer clinical mental health intern students. You are also a long-term sex coach and sex educator, bringing a ton of experience and background to us, it's very fitting for this topic. so glad you're here.

erin: 2:00

Thank you for nudging that in. I'm terrible at tooting my own horn, so thanks Megan.

Meagan: 2:05

It's okay. We do it for each other. That's kind of the point here. Laura, dive in. Who are you and why are you here?

Lurah: 2:13

I'm Laura Patrick. I am a graduate student intern at her time Therapy. For me, perimenopause really crept out of nowhere. I was so busy getting my kids off to college, caregiving for my mom, managing my job, trying to navigate a divorce and co-parenting that I didn't even realize what was happening in my own body. I just knew I was having really heavy periods struggling with depression and anxiety and not feeling like myself at all. with so many other stressors in my life, I brushed it off and carried on. It wasn't until the pandemic hit that I was forced to slow down and focus on my health, and I started to dig deeper. what I discovered was that perimenopause and menopause are. Incredibly complex but perfectly normal transitions. I did not understand what was happening. I believe that this topic deserves more attention and understanding than it typically gets. I don't think, I'm alone. if you've ever felt confused or overwhelmed or just like you're not yourself during this season of life, the truth is you are not alone.

Meagan: 3:17

Yeah. Yeah, it's important message. I think we're gonna just be vulnerable and age ourselves here a little bit. I shared, I just turned 35 in June and I'm realizing, I'm at the stage where like, oh shoot, I should know what's coming. I need to know more about this. that's the phase I'm in. I'm wondering if you both feel comfortable sharing, your age and your phase that you're in, in all of this to highlight you're speaking from experience, not just. Academic knowledge about these topics?

erin: 3:44

Yeah. I'll dive in. I am, 45 in December, and I believe I started perimenopause in my late thirties. I got pregnant later in life. I'm, an older parent. I knew something was different and being, a sex educator. I'm really in tune and paying attention to what my body's doing. And so I was very keyed into my menstrual cycle and how my body was feeling. I started to notice changes and when I would talk to medical professionals about it, for example, I was dealing with some anxiety I didn't know what it was related to because I did not have anybody tell me what perimenopause was and that this was gonna be a thing. And so I was talking about like heavier periods and. Increasing, like the cramping but I was also dealing with anxiety. I was visiting therapists and had a doctor who prescribed medication for anxiety, which I've only just recently got off of, because the anxiety was actually driven by the drop in my hormones. So as my estrogen was going off a cliff not only was it affecting my period, but it was affecting things like how I was. Interacting with the world. And so that anxiety that, oh my gosh, anything bad can happen. And like waking up in the middle of the night in a panic was all related to perimenopause. the hardest part for me, I mean, I did a lot of self-learning and it was trying to advocate within the medical community and just be heard. I finally signed up with an online, health company who focuses purely on women in their middle age. And, it was the first time I had a medical professional say, yeah, I hear you and you're absolutely in perimenopause, and let's get you on some hormones. for me, it was like a breath of fresh air and I felt like I had been suffering. I did feel alone. I felt isolated even though I was talking to girlfriends who were experiencing the same stuff I was. we're in a rural part of the state and our access to services is really limited. not to mention there's some religious overtones, our main hospital is Catholic. Women's care in Catholic hospitals is limited. Their emphasis on caring for women past the birthing stage of life, is limited. And they're not interested in making me feel better about myself. More about, well, how can we help you have more babies? Which is certainly not something I was interested in doing. I feel ragey, I guess is the word I'm angry, about a lot of this And really wanting to do a lot of that, like dismantling of the misinformation and dismantling of this secret we're supposed to keep. My mom had talked to me about perimenopause. Her mom didn't talk to her about perimenopause. Like we have generations of silence. And that we know, of course is, built into the patriarchy. If we keep women quiet, we don't let them speak about this stuff, right. they can't gather in community and do anything functional. there are so many stories of women hitting this point in their lives and taking the world by force. And I think that's a big piece of that transition is. Many of us are moving through that point where the kids are launching, right? And this is our time to be doing the things that we wanna be doing.'cause we're done, parenting, done. We're never done parenting, but done parenting. And I get mad that this is something that is kept from us or silenced I want to talk about it every day. And I do, I talk about it all the time. If you saw my discussion posts for class just riddled with perimenopause, I'm like, don't diagnose anxiety. Make sure that person has their hormone.

Meagan: 7:21

Yeah, that's so fair and I'm so glad you're talking about it. we have so many women that come for therapy and, therapy can help, empower women to learn how to advocate for themselves in medical settings and just to hear like, you're not crazy. These symptoms are real. all of that has a place but medical. Providers also need to step in and offer the medication and support that women are due. Laura, I'm curious to hear if your experience echoed Erin's or if yours is a little different.

Lurah: 7:50

A little bit different. I'm 55 years old. I turned 50 in 2020, and I ended up pretty much white knuckling my way through perimenopause. I avoid doctors like the plague. I have to really have one foot in the grave before I go to the doctor. It's just a personal preference. I'll go for a checkup, but I do not. Tend to go to the doctor if I can help it. so I unfortunately white knuckled through menopause'cause my menopause hit right at 50 and menstruation ceased. I was officially in menopause and I still had not sought any kind of, medical help I felt geriatric and I thought, you know, I'm only 50 years old, you know, in the 18 hundreds, 50 was really old, but this is, you know, at that time, 20 20, 20 21, there's no reason for me to be groaning when I get out of a chair. I had gained 50 pounds. I just felt like my body was out of control. So I, got onto some hormone replacement therapy and it was absolutely. 180 shift both physically and mentally. Some of the anxiety depression, lack of motivation, just lifted. the brain fog. It was just, I was like, okay, good. I actually am gonna make it. It's gonna be all right. And, that's kind of my, self-imposed rough. Transition. So I would love to help people not do it the way I did.'cause really it was not ideal.

Meagan: 9:23

Yeah. So many generations go through it the hard way and instead of just continuing that, we can reach a hand back and be like, it doesn't have to be quite this hard. Here's how to do it differently. Here's how to not suffer through these transitions and how to get the care that you deserve. I heard you Laura say, my menstruation had officially ceased and I was in menopause, and I'm hearing that there's a delineating point in time. So let's back up and even just talk about what is the definition of perimenopause versus menopause.

Lurah: 9:54

Perimenopause is per meaning around, so it's around menopause. So it's, it's the years leading up to the end of menstruation. this is when your hormones fluctuate and it typically, the average onset is mid to late forties. However, it can start much earlier, like in your mid thirties, and lasts four to eight years on average. Menopause is when you've gone through 12 consecutive months without a period, without menstruation, and typical. Onset in the United States is 51 years of age. post menopause, where I am right now, are the years following menopause. your body is still transitioning. you're losing bone density. It has, it impacts your health, your heart health, and and your brain's still, still struggling a little bit with the hormonal fluctuations.

erin: 10:43

And just to add to that, Laura, I think the perimenopause, the way I, I think of it and we titled our group, this is the Pause, it's like the pause before the end. we're gonna play with language like that, and not,'cause we don't see it as an ending, perimenopause is all that time leading up to it. And I think this is the piece that people get stuck on is they only think of menopause as like, oh, well my period stops. And I'm done. That's menopause. And that's really just this small moment in time compared to what women are experiencing. And I think what we're not talking about is that beginning four to eight years, or sometimes 10 years for some women. Like, I will probably be one of the folks that has, 10 to 15 years of perimenopausal symptoms before I hit menopause and my period actually stops. Something else that happens during this time is that your body will stop releasing eggs. You can still have a period without an egg being present. And so that's some of the other, unspoken piece that's going on is. When our hormones drop like they do, especially in perimenopause. When we hit that ovulation part of our cycle, when we're releasing an egg, our body's working extra hard to get the estrogen all the way up the hill to then release an egg, and it takes a lot to get there, which is why we see these real ups and downs of mood and irritability How we're feeling and things like hot flashes and night sweats and insomnia, all this stuff because our hormones are churning, our body is working really hard to get us to that place of just. We're gonna try to release an egg one more time and eventually it stops doing that, but we'll still have periods. And then we do finally hit that moment in time when our body just stops bleeding. the medical definition is that we have to not bleed for 12 months and then we can officially say you're in menopause. If you spot or have any amount of bleeding anytime in that 12 months, you're technically not in menopause. And so it's really interesting to see the, medical definitions and look at some of the timelines around it. And then anecdotally hear from people who were like, Hmm, I think I started symptoms much earlier. Or that my body really started to change as I was rolling into my early forties. And that I think is what. Is really exciting about these conversations is you get voices in a room lived, experiences in a room, and we get to talk about, Hey, this is what perimenopause looks like. It's different for everybody. Some people will not experience what Laura and I experienced. They'll have really minimal symptoms. They might have a couple years of perimenopause, and then they just stop their period. I envy those folks.

Lurah: 13:24

one of the things I found surprising was I thought there would be a correlation between how your menstrual cycle. Affected your body and mind, during your reproductive years and the intensity of the perimenopausal, menopausal symptoms. I was lucky and menstruating gave me no issues whatsoever. I rarely cramped relatively light periods just was not an issue for me. half the time, I was like clockwork. I knew it was gonna come, I took care of business. Just moved on it. It really was very easy. So I was ill prepared for perimenopause to smack me up the side of the head.

erin: 14:00

Yeah. And it feels like it does that right? Because we don't often talk about those more subtle symptoms that to me, I think is why having the conversation so worth it. When we talk about brain fog, I couldn't, I stopped being able to remember people's names. I was always sharp, always good with that kind of stuff. I could have those conversations and follow through. then one day I felt like I can't remember anybody's name now I'm constantly, writing stuff down. I take people's business cards, I have notes in my phone. that brain fog, is something that is. Not talked about. Women feel crazy. Like I'm losing my brain.

Meagan: 14:38

And society perpetuates that messaging, right? It's easy for us to think if we are feeling distressed or we're not okay with this situation we're in in life, then something must be wrong with us. Because it's not openly talked about that this is hard and it's difficult to even realize you're in perimenopause because there's such a wide age range when it can start and everyone's experience is so unique. hence the power of conversation and the encouragement of women to come together. Be really vulnerable and honest about this is what I'm experiencing. What are you experiencing? And at what point does the tipping level of these symptoms become like, okay, I can handle this on my own and maybe, over coffee with a girlfriend versus I really need to reach out for help in a medical setting, or I need to go to therapy and bring this up with my therapist and work through some of the mental health challenges associated with it. What is the tipping point where you would recommend people reach out to their doctor, to their therapist?

erin: 15:39

That's hard. your therapist is gonna be a softer space to land in to help you navigate, your next steps? I think that's a really important piece. I unfortunately didn't find a lot of help within the therapeutic world, but I was seeing people who were maybe a little bit younger than me, and that sometimes is part of the hurdle of. Finding someone who understands what you're talking about. there seems to be, I don't know, there's like that gap in advocacy and then I think is another reason to go and see your therapist and talk about how do I advocate for myself? Because chances of finding a person within the medical community who is gonna hear you the first time, I would say is low. I'm not super optimistic. there's lots of reasons for that. One being that medical textbooks don't even have documented, structural information about the clitoris. we don't have full body conversations within the medical community about women's bodies. Like they don't actually learn the structure of the clitoris, which. Frustrates me to no end. So I'm hesitant to be like, yeah, go see your doctor, but maybe you have a great relationship with your doctor or a nurse practitioner and you feel really confident. But I get worried about sending people in and then being dismissed. I have a friend she went to see her doctor. She was describing her perimenopausal symptoms to this person, and the doctor said she was hysterical. They use the word hysterical. Wow. Which we know right, as practitioners in the counseling world, that this was a diagnosis in the DSM for women in the, thirties, forties, and fifties of you're just overly emotional.

Meagan: 17:15

and we haven't done better, we haven't moved beyond that really by now. That is just sad and anger inducing for sure.

erin: 17:23

Yeah. I think that's happening in spaces like her time therapy, and with learners like Laura and I who are in these conversations saying, why are we going to anxiety first as a diagnosis? What's this person's age? what's going on in their world, specifically around their body? introducing that as part of the conversation Have you talked to anybody about your hormones? the interesting thing that I learned when I saw somebody in June was that I was like, do you need to get labs? Do I need to get labs done to check my hormone levels? And the doctor was like, we could check your labs. Sure, you could get labs done today, but if I had you do labs tomorrow, it'd be different. Every day is gonna be different. And that's part of what's happening in perimenopause our body is. Constantly changing and women already have a cycle, right? That almost every week or every few weeks we're into a totally different stage of our hormone levels because of that menstrual cycle. And so, it was nice to kind of hear like, I don't need to prove it with. Slab work, right? Which would be consistent months of checking where you are in your cycle, getting tested at the same time in your cycle, and like being able to determine that instead, it was more like, no, I see and hear you. I believe you when you say these are the things that are happening to your body. I don't know if we can in this podcast, but I'd love to shout out MIDI, which is the online medical community that I went to see. I know, Laura, you were meeting with someone else.

Lurah: 18:50

It's Why Nona? W-I-N-O-N-A. I do wanna take maybe a moment to point out that additionally. Perimenopause and menopause. These hormone fluctuations can exacerbate the symptoms of other challenges you may be dealing with. Depression, anxiety, A DHD. So it's important to note that too, because perhaps you need to tweak your meds go to the therapist more often than usual. Just have those conversations because it really does affect every part of your body and mind.

Meagan: 19:22

Yeah. And these, fluctuating hormones. Has been. Almost like an excuse that I think the medical community and the researchers within medical communities have used forever as an excuse not to include women in medical studies, not to focus on women's health research. that is why we are still having to diagnose ourselves based on. Tracking our own symptoms and being believed in a medical setting that is, often more prone to gaslight and ignore women's pain than actually listen to it. So we're still in a phase of a big disadvantage. considering that coming to your therapist first. Can be really helpful for women wanting to go into the medical space and get help a therapist can look through anxiety symptoms, discuss depression symptoms, mood shifts, fluctuations, and your therapist can. Either, give you an accurate diagnosis say according to the DSM, you meet the clinical criteria for generalized anxiety disorder or major depressive disorder, or one of these other more personality and mood shift disorders. And that can actually be really empowering to say, i'm in therapy, I'm doing the work on this diagnosis. Or empower women to say I have been meeting with a therapist for the last six months and we have ruled out generalized anxiety disorder because my symptoms don't fit that. So we've ruled out a mental health reason for my symptoms and now I'm coming to you asking for help on the physical parts of this.'cause I feel like for so many women, if it's done in the other order like they go into their physician first, especially if it's a male physician, unfortunately. The likelihood, and this is speaking from data and statistics, is that they're gonna be told, like your example, Erin, that they're hysterical or that they should go to therapy to deal with their anxiety or any number of fill in the blank, pass you off. Excuse so that you are bounced around to different providers. Because it can't be, oh, you're failing the symptom. I believe you, and I'm gonna give you a medical intervention the first try. Women are in this position where we have to go through the mental health aspect first so that we have that as ammunition to go in with a lot of relevant data to your physician to better advocate for yourself. Yeah.

Lurah: 21:47

Yeah, I agree.

erin: 21:48

Yeah. finding that support, I think being able to find a therapist that can hear you and not dismiss what you're talking about a safe space to just rant about that. feels empowering A big piece of this was just being seen and heard, and creating more opportunity and space for people to be seen and heard. I think about clients coming in and seeing Laura and Laura being able to see them, hear them and know that yeah, I was there and let's dig into this and let me help you advocate. therapy first, I think, yes, there are also people who are not interested in receiving hormone therapy. And I think that's, another aspect of this, There's choice in this process for some of us. Me personally, I absolutely wanted the hormones and I feel a hundred percent better having hormones on board. And I didn't go small. I'm doing the whole kit and caboodle, But I know, there are some folks who are like, well, I'm not interested and I want to try to experience this without, the hormone therapy, but there's still need for care there. And so. Having these conversations and talking about you have a choice. It is your body. You get to engage with it, how you wanna engage with it, and there are ways to do this, not alone. I think that's a big piece of what we're talking about here today, is you're not alone in this.

Lurah: 23:08

I like the idea of the support because these body transitions do not happen in a vacuum. at these stages of our lives, we are experiencing so much change anyway, change in parenting roles you may be caregiving for your parent. life transitions Are already destabilizing without, hormone changes and, brain fog and all the other symptoms that come with menopause. And I think it's really important that women find the support they need to reframe it. So that it's a period of transformation. it's not the end of things. it's just transitioning. You're pivoting to a new stage in your life and you need to find, the strengths and the positive aspects of that and build on them.

Meagan: 23:53

such a good point, Laura. it doesn't have to be an ending, although there may be some grief that comes with this stage of life, especially for those who had fertility struggles and wanted a child but wasn't able to have that during their reproductive years or just the nostalgia of leaving that phase and coming into a new one. There can be a grieving process. Which is again, why mental health support and grief therapy can play a factor here too. But to your point, it doesn't have to be a sad ending. It can be an exciting one into another really good phase of life. And I'm wondering if you guys can expand on that too. We've touched on the bad parts, like the anxiety, the depression, the mood shifts, what are some of the good things that women have to look forward to in these different phases?

Lurah: 24:35

For me, it's a feeling of freedom. Physically not having a menstrual cycle is awesome. I am 55 years old. I am an empty nester. It is all about me right now. I haven't. Felt this way since I was a teenager. So it really has become, a new phase in my life. I have a new career. I have so much to look forward to. It's just really been a positive thing now that I understand what I'm dealing with and what the possibilities are.

erin: 25:06

I love that, Laura. I am not there yet, so the bleeding continues. I look forward to that certainly. But I think there's something about the community that I've built as a result of going through this and asking all the other women in my life. What's going on with your body? What's happening with you? I'm having this going on, what are you? we've built a community of support within my circle and that feels so nice. It's always nice to build that community and have that space to come together. it's not organized. We're not meeting every Thursday or something like that, but we are. Checking in on each other and taking care. I'm also definitely in my zero F's to give phase of life. I am not hung up on how people view me. I am not interested in making friends with everyone or being my best self. It is about. Me and taking up space. Now, I've kind of always done that, but there's just something about being in my forties that I'm like, oh, I think shift in hormones has released some of that. I don't know, patriarchy, blanket of performing. And I'm a lot less performative in how I show up in the world and more forgiving of myself. So I think that transition and part of the process of going through this has really been forgiveness of myself and moving forward in a way that takes up space unapologetically.

Meagan: 26:30

That's so great to hear as someone in her mid thirties. I love seeing you two at these stages of 10 and 20 years ahead and, giving me something to look forward to this doesn't have to be a, scary, sad transition. It can be something. even more freeing and, an exciting new phase of life, as long as I think about it, right? have the right support and go through it in community. luckily we have women like you creating spaces to come together Connect with other women and share experiences so we can empower each other. I would love it if you would talk a little bit about the pause, the group you are creating. Tell us more about this space and what it's gonna offer women.

Lurah: 27:10

I think we decided to create the group because medical visits don't leave time for the emotional and cognitive concerns that surround perimenopause and menopause. And the group will give people a space to be heard, and learn tools and connect with others. I think one of the most healing things will be learning that you're not alone. That sense of community Erin just spoke to.

erin: 27:33

Yeah. And to give space for people to run through their list of like, this is happening to me. Is this normal? Is this a symptom. To come together in those first couple of sessions and talk about like. Am I crazy or is this a thing? And like Laura mentioned, really that community building piece, but then being seen and heard I'm excited Laura's bringing quite a bit to the group around symptom tracking and care for self and these really lovely ways for you to not only be in community, but to take away something from the group each time Maybe a little bit of grounding and rooting. I feel like Laura's being very humble. She's really built a beautiful curriculum for this and a plan for us moving forward. I am here to champion this and contribute. even though our bodies are changing, it's not that we're failing. There was something very particular about that. And so I don't know if you wanna expand on that or not, but I felt like that pulled me in as we were building this group, there were times when I felt like a failure, but there was something with me.

Lurah: 28:37

All of these changes that you're experiencing are not weaknesses, it's just a transition. It's just a passing phase. and again, having the education and the tools to cope with that can make it a smooth transition. And, you know, maybe even a joyous one if we wanna be very optimistic. at the end of it, you come out with a whole new. Experience a whole new set of skills to embrace the rest of your life.

erin: 29:03

Yes. And I think we are gonna create some joy in the space. I think that will come to fruition. Certainly. like Megan had mentioned, I think we're also gonna touch on grief. We're gonna spend some time. Grieving because it is change and sometimes there's loss in that, sometimes just the change itself feels really difficult. We're gonna have eight weeks together, just this beautiful process of coming and learning, letting go and embracing what we are now. What you've built Laura, is really important because it's not linear. perimenopause itself will be a whole bunch of ups and downs. And then there will be menopause and then there's post menopause. This is something you're gonna use repeatedly over the remainder of our lives. And I think that's really important piece of what we're bringing to this group.

Meagan: 29:49

This is like the midlife health class that we all need, but somehow just wasn't built into society anywhere for us. So you guys have noticed that gap and actually built it. This group is gonna give women so many tangible things to walk away with like a symptom tracker and, knowledge of, what symptoms are associated with what phase? When does it start, when are those delineating factors moving from perimenopause to menopause? There's so much rich education and actual coping skills and tools that you guys are gonna teach, but in a more broad, bigger sense. I see it as, an opportunity to overcome human giver syndrome, for those of you who haven't listened to my former, episodes talking about human Giver syndrome, I really encourage you to go back and listen to it. to summarize it's basically this way that. Women are conditioned to exist, to give back to others. women are celebrated when we start our periods because we're entering this phase of womanhood where we can reproduce, we can create families, we can put so much out into the world from ourselves People love us in that phase, but when we go through this transition of no longer being able to do that and being more knowledgeable, more comfortable with ourselves and our bodies, how we are past our quote unquote prime, suddenly society is not as welcoming and embracing of women in that phase because we have less literally to put out into society and to give back, and we make it more about us. The kids are out of the house and we can focus on ourselves, and that's a face that's not celebrated. This is an opportunity to face that and to maybe walk away with a rewritten narrative of how you look at yourself and what you want to give to the world in this place and this time in your life.

erin: 31:38

I love that. can we rebrand it as the taking phase I'm taking a space and I'm gonna do what I wanna do. I love that. It's such an Important opportunity to create. Space to bring women together and community so that they can talk about it.

Meagan: 31:54

Absolutely.

erin: 31:55

So

Speaker: 31:55

if there's anyone listening to this that's like, Ugh, I think I could learn a lot from that. I really need it, but I'm just a little bit nervous to talk about such personal stuff in front of other people, or I don't know if I can fit this in to my life. What would you say to women that are kind of on the fence of joining you in this circle?

Lurah: 32:13

I would say that, first of all, psychoeducation is just so wonderful and it's going to ease this transition for you. And even if you learn small tools that can ease your day-to-day experience. I would encourage anyone to give themselves this self-care gift That they can carry forward into the rest of their lives.

erin: 32:33

LRA is much more gentle than I am. I'm like, grab it. Grab the opportunity with both hands. this is the first opportunity, for some folks to take up space. this is a great way to begin that journey of taking up more room. so yeah, grab it. I want you to, and if you sign up, sign up. You can say no to us after you talk to us. that's part of what's lovely about the process that Megan has created here is sign up. Then we're gonna talk to you, we're gonna give you a call and have a conversation about what the logistics of the group look like. We will answer your questions. It's a really soft introduction, to joining a group. It's not, you've signed the form, you're committed, you've paid the money, right? We're asking you to, take a little bit of a leap of faith, but also, give yourself a gift. This is a gift. And it will be soft. We're not gonna strong arm you into anything, no matter how forceful I am in my excitement.

Speaker: 33:26

This phone call that Erin's talking about here is a free, no pressure consultation. with all of our services at her time we believe and have seen the benefits and transformation that women get from carving out time every week for themselves. if you're not sure if it's this group that you wanna spend your precious time on, or if maybe you'd benefit more from a one-to-one. Therapy session with Laura or Erin, a free consult call is a great place to start so you can talk through that with Laura Erin, or our care coordinator, Andrea, we have a whole wonderful, empowering team of women here at her time that love to support you and welcome you thank you so much for being here, ladies, and being willing to share your personal stories. This is such a powerful example. And start to the type of storytelling and connection available to women who are willing to give themselves that time.